Logic 101: Breaking down Arizona’s image
On the surface, little logic exists for Rick Pitino or an established coach (i.e. Tom Izzo and John Calipari) to leave their respective schools. Why should they leave something good, really?
It’s not a question of why in the heck would they leave for Arizona? Arizona? That argument doesn’t wash with me and probably 99 percent of the coaches in Division I basketball if you polled them.
Let’s not forget that Arizona is not a program of the likes of Houston, which dropped like a thud after the Phi Slamma Jamma days. The Wildcats have the resources, the financial strength, and the name now to keep going what Olson started a quarter-century ago. The Wildats have withstood the test of time and trouble, evidenced by the UA being able to make the NCAA tournament the last two years and a Sweet Sixteen this year.
Need I remind you that Arizona is only two years removed from the record of 27 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances held by North Carolina? Who would have thought Arizona would rival North Carolina for that record? For any record? Arizona? I’m using the voice Allen Iverson used when he said, “Practice? We’re talking about practice. Practice?”
Arizona?
That’s the voice I’m hearing from people of the likes of Andy Katz, Seth Davis and some bloggers.
OK, let’s get back to Logic 101 here.
If the UA is to “fall” like Katz says to Reggie Theus, why haven’t they signed Theus yet? He is not coaching anywhere. What does common sense tell you?
This tells me, I don’t know about you, that Jim Livengood has his eyes set on a bigger prize. And that prize is still coaching. And from what sources have told me, those close to the program and those who have been recently involved with it, an informal agreement between both parties has been reached.
Further stressing that Livengood is holding out for someone more qualified than Theus: Why hasn’t the UA sought permission to speak yet with Anthony Grant, who is a legitimate star on the rise in the coaching profession? Alabama newspapers are reporting that VCU has allowed the Crimson Tide to speak to Grant. No word about Arizona being in the picture at all.
Who do you think the high-paying boosters who spend more than $45,000 for courtside seats want to see on the UA bench if it came down to Theus and Grant?
To wit: This is Livengood’s most important hire in his career. He will likely be leaving the UA within five years because he is 65. Do you think he wants to leave a legacy behind by hiring Theus instead of a coach with a more detailed NCAA tournament background?
While I think it’s true that it does not make much sense for Pitino, Izzo or Calipari to leave their respective situations, I also think coaching at Arizona for any of them or Jamie Dixon would not be a case of: “Wow, how dumb can they be? Coaching Arizona? Arizona?”
I sincerely believe that Livengood’s list includes Sean Miller of Xavier and Mark Few of Gonzaga. So why does Katz throw out a name like Randy Bennett? I’ll tell you why: to try to put Arizona fans in their place because they think they can get a Pitino, Calipari or Izzo.
Memo to Katz: Forbes magazine just came out with their second annual ranking of the most lucrative college basketball programs and Arizona is still in the top 10, at No. 6, despite the Wildcats’ troubles the last couple of years. The UA’s value is $21 million and its operating income is $12 million, according to Forbes.
It’s true that Arizona dropped from last year’s ranking of No. 4. But Duke also dropped from No. 5 to No. 8. And Indiana, which finished 6-25 and was embroiled in all the Kelvin Sampson mess, went from No. 6 to No. 4 because of Tom Crean’s hire. I’m inclined to believe Arizona will take the same path as Indiana after it hires its next coach and generates excitement from its fans.
Logic 101: The most significant goal for Livengood is to keep the money machine going, and he will have a very hard time doing that with Theus and Bennett.
We’re talking about Arizona here. Yes, Arizona without the question mark.
Tags: calipari, Dixon, Forbes, Izzo, Randy Bennett, Rick Pitino, Theus
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March 24th, 2009 at 10:27 AM
If Arizona was going after a coach currently not in the tournament, I don’t think Arizona would formally go after that coach as long as Arizona was still playing. I don’t think, therefore, that Arizona’s silence tells us anything about who they are targeting.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Dennis : Theus has been available since Day 1. Didn’t USC hire Floyd midway through the season a few years ago?
March 24th, 2009 at 11:30 AM
javier, it’s nice to see you put up the long piece. and yet i still did not see the clear logic why dixon will consider the job. you made a case that it wouldn’t wow people if he does come, but i see stronger case that he stays put in pitt.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:37 AM
If the person hired has been available for a long time, Livengood will be crucified. Not for hiring the wrong person, but for not hiring them sooner to help out on the recruiting. Waiting to hire someone that could have been visiting high school coaches and AAU coaches would be the biggest blunder that Livengood could possibly make. Therefore I have to think that his target(s) are still coaching. I hope.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:40 AM
The silence is a bit mystifying. With Livengood playing it so close to the chest its hard to tell whats going on, but I agree I don’t think Theus is in the cards. I think out of respect to the UofA players with them playing as well as they have and with the abandonment issues of the last couple of years, the last thing the administration wants to do is create a distraction. Plus I believe one of the reasons why this team is playing so well is it really likes Russ as a coach and might be playing harder in hopes that he might get the job even if the odds are slim. We see that played out in sports all the time. Once again the admin might not want to mess that up. But hey isn’t the silence combined with the fact that this team if filled with great team first guys and shares a sense of magic not seen since the ’97 team is what is making this the most interesting season ever for UofA.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:48 AM
I don’t get all the nay-saying about us going after/contending for the services of Cal/Pitino/Izzo. UA is a Top 10 job…I think Lousiville and MSU are also Top 10, but Memphis is certainly not (OK…maybe right now it is a Top 10 PROGRAM, but as soon as Cal leaves, it won’t be). The facilities, fanbase, location, conference, etc. make it so.
At the same time, I also think it is unlikely that UA can persuade one of those 3 to come. Obviously Izzo is synonymous with MSU and is a god there. The only way he comes is if he really feels in his heart/ego that he wants to prove he can do it on his own someplace else…or enjoys the sun and Tucson climate (or maybe Mi Nidito?) so much he wants to come coach here for 5-10 years then retire in a new, more habitable place where he becomes a legend, too.
Pitino is obviously royalty in Kentucky. There are lots of grumblings that UK wants to bring him back at any price and he is obviously adored in Louisville now (who thought THAT would be possible?!). He is nearing 60 and has stated he won’t coach deep into his 60s. His program at Louisville is just coming into its own right now, and UA will certainly be a rebuilding project. The only way he comes is if his thrill is in the building and not the fruits of labor. Maybe he wins a NC this year and says “why not be the only guy to take 3 teams to a Final Four or NC” and views UA as a golden opportunity to cement himself as the game’s greatest. OR…if UA gives his son an inside track at succeeding him in 10 years.
Cal is the one I think is most likely to come (logically). Yes, he has had great teams the past 2 years at Memphis and has an amazing class coming in next year. But he will always have to play the Conference USA and will always roll to a great record and be hurt by the weak conference. He’s never been in a power conference (UMass in the A10 is not that powerful). Coming to UA gives him the chance to take his product to the next level…more exposure, better competition, more respect. Memphis will pay with Fort Knox to keep him (I think they DEFINITELY outbid UA for his services), but the allure of what UA has to offer for him and his legacy (he could be here 20 years) may make the difference in income palatable (2-3 million bucks goes a LOOOOOONG way in Tucson).
If Dixon wants to come West, now is the time. UCLA and UA are the only jobs worth coming “home” for, so this may (hopefully) be the last time one is available for years to come. Wright will never leave the east coast, IMO. Few would be a decent fit and he certainly ranks ahead of Theus/Bennett.
I don’t know if we get a HUGE name like Izzo/Pitino/Cal (I wouldn’t bet on it), but there are legitimate reasons for each to move on. None of us are in their shoes and none of us know what drives/motivates them. Surely it is more than money in the case of those 3….surely there would be no “smoke” if there was no fire (at least regarding INTEREST in the job).
March 24th, 2009 at 12:11 PM
Let’s just strip this down:
How does is not make sense for Cal to come here?
The only thing I can say, is will he embrace and be humbled by the tradition that Lute built? Or will he look to renegotiate his contract every year for more $$$. In 7 years at memphis, he’s had 7 revisions up on his contract. Money is the only thing keeping him in Memphis.
But is money enough?
Re Pitino – he would be close to everyone’s top choice and he loves AZ, from what I’ve read. It’s just too good to be true, so I don’t want to jinx it.
At any rate, I feel very confident we will get one of those two… believe it or not. Where there’s smoke there’s fire.
March 24th, 2009 at 12:54 PM
BTW, Looks like Katz is warming up to the bigger names
From today’s notes:
“Arizona will have to pay more than $2 million to lure any of the high-profile names like Mark Few (Gonzaga), Sean Miller (Xavier) or even the out-of-reach names like Rick Pitino (Louisville), Tom Izzo (Michigan State) or John Calipari (Memphis). The Wildcats will also have to change the way they travel with chartered trips, something that teams in the Pac-10 don’t normally do. This is needed to ensure that the facilities are upgraded with more than just a new court to practice on without oodles of amenities. There’s nothing wrong with going down a peg in the coaching search, but the Wildcats will be facing an Indiana-like startup next season and this program has missed out on two recruiting classes. So whoever gets the gig better get at least seven to eight seasons to turn it around. Interim coach Russ Pennell isn’t a candidate. But he does want to be a head coach, as long as it’s the right situation for his family. Pennell, who was on Tuesday’s ESPNU college basketball podcast , said quality of life will be a driving factor in any choice he makes.”
March 24th, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Again, take Andy Katz at face value and nothing more. Like he is “tied-in” to the UofA program… In terms of recruiting, how many times do you hear of recruits committing to a school, then when the coach leaves or changes, they de-commit and follow the coach? (Can you say UA for instance?) So, saying they have lost 2 recruiting classes, while worrisome, isn’t the end of the world if you get the right coach to replace… Plus, what if by some strange force of nature, Hill, Budinger and Wise all love the next pick for coach and decide to come back for their senior seasons??? Suddenly, 26 in a row or possibly even a deeper run is in the cards.
Andy – thanks for your opinion, move on to the next topic.
1) Mark Few
2) Jay Wright
3) Sean Miller
Either coach would be a huge “get” for the UA and the only reason I put Few ahead of Wright is because he has the west-coast recruiting pipelines that would be more successful here which will take Wright time to build. (Harder to bring the kids west from the east coast since they will be away from the family, etc. etc.) I think Sean Miller is a big-time “up and comer” in the ranks – if he is not already “there” – that if we couldn’t snag either 1 or 2, would be a really strong 3rd choice.
In terms of Livengood being “quiet” on this. Best thing for the existing team is keep this from being a distraction, let the players play and focus on the task at hand, why should they have to be asked every 5 minutes about their “new coach” or who they prefer to play for, etc. etc. Recruits will come back to the UA based on who the next coach is, their style, etc.
March 24th, 2009 at 1:58 PM
Katz is off the deep end.. who is this clown? Another west coast basher..
Unbelievable..
I hope Moreno and Sarver are reading this articles..
Money money money… I had heard that the new coach would take a pay cut to come here.. I have heard this on the radio more than once (KTAR)..
Last I checked we have 3 recruits who have us on their lists..
why would any coach who has proven himself not want to a climate that is favorable year round? East Lancing has nice climate? Louisville?
UA has the tradition, revenue, quality fan base and tv contracts plus UA is one of Nike’s best sellers for merchandise..
Cal is in a weak conference and he knows it.. Lousville, Cinci and Marquette got smart and moved..
March 24th, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Love the blog, by the way.
But a note on the logic: it’s often considered distracting to have a player declare he will check out the draft during the season, and it’s probably considered more distracting to hire a coach while one is still in the coach’s chair, even if it’s known that that is how things are going to go down. For sure, the AD would want Arizona’s coaches and players not to be unmotivated/ distracted by hearing about the coaching search.
And guys like Theus can wait for the Wildcats to do their due diligence/ toss offers at the big-time names like Few, Miller, Jay Wright, and bigger. You don’t want to try and interview guys who are still in season, and you don’t want to knock out candidates who might become the good fallback option later.
That’s just what I think.
March 24th, 2009 at 7:04 PM
Imagine the angst of UA fans and its boosters if Livengood hired Theus, who continues to be mentioned by Katz and Davis? Theus was there all along and now the UA hires him? Livengood would get so much negative feedback it could cause season ticket holders to cancel their orders. I know the last thing Livengood wants is a distraction for the players. That’s a no-brainer. But to wait this long and wind up with Theus, who was for the picking when the season started? He should go after a different second-tier candidate like Anthony Grant or Sean Miller. If Arizona loses to Louisville on Friday, it will be interesting to see how long it takes to hear reports of Livengood seeking permission to talk with a candidate. Also, if the UA winds up with somebody significantly more qualified than Reggie Theus I wonder what that does to the reputation of Katz and Davis in the eyes of UA fans and west coast college basketball followers. The way I see it Katz’s reputation is on the line by saying Arizona is more inclined to land Theus or Randy Bennett. Hey, if he’s right more power to him and I’ll be singing his praises here. But I don’t see that happening.
March 24th, 2009 at 7:45 PM
Theus?
This just proves how little Davis and Katz actually know – they are months behind the curve.
The is no “insider” talk with them.
Like it’s really true that Katz calls Livengood or Shelton on the phone and talks about the inside track -right!
These guys just guess. This is NOT the NBA where you have front office staff who give out info to TV personalities.
This is the NCAA.
As for naming a person right now – you cannot have two people hired for the same position for state employment.
Heck, Livengood can only “name” someone – the Board of Regents does the hiring.
And there are only TWO people who know what’s going on LIVENGOOD and SHELTON. Like I said before, Davis and Katz are not in the picture.
March 24th, 2009 at 10:34 PM
I’m beginning to wonder if Frank and montecristo are one and the same – Katz.
Or Seth.
So Frank, how many more Thompson Jr-led trips into the post-season NIT for Gergetown will it take before you’re playing this name-the-coach game with your Hoyas?
In other words, who do you think would be a viable candidate to replace John Jr, should the Monsignor have to go looking?
And before you say the Hoyas have a more prestigious program than THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA, you’ll have to tell us:
A) When it was that the ‘Townies last went Dancing with any significance?
B) If you truly, honestly believe your version of the Fighting Bulldogs, DC-style, could ever make it to Dances number 24 and 25 with two different interim-Head Coaches in as many years; with key players playing for their third Head Coach in as many years; with a mass exodus of players and recruits dealing a huge blow to the team from Dance number 23 to Dance number 24 to Dance number 25; with a 6, 7 or, at best, an 8 man rotation, as some say; with a team left for dead going into and coming out of the conference tourney in each of the last three years?
That, sports fans, is the classic, textbook definition of a P-R-O-G-R-A-M.
A bonafide, legitimate, honest to goodness program.
And it’s something that the object of Dookie V’s drool could never accomplish, seeing as how its Special K one all of a sudden was mysteriously befallen with a “back problem” as the losses started mounting in that year way back when, when Cameron Blue Seth’s pride and joy ended, what, 11-17 or something like that?
And neither could UCLA, UNC, Kentucky, Indiana, Syracuse or any of the other so-called “traditional powers” of college basketball.
They certainly haven’t done anything close to this yet.
What makes one think they’ll start now?
Not.
C) Why it is that Coach O’s ‘Cats would regularly beat the best G-Town had to offer in the day, even in DC and with AI leading the way for John Sr’s Hoyas?
You can’t, and you know it.
Yet you two Katz and Seth apologists – and especially you, Frank – would be the first to say Georgetown deserves to look at no worse than Izzo, Dixon, Pitino, Cal or, yes, Wright to replace Jr.
And we all know (St. Mary’s) Bennett, Few and Theus would be the furthest things, or coaches, from your mind.
Katz lost credibility with me when he took up the mantra of the eastern establishment media and alleged know it alls of the college basketball world: The Eastern-biased to Sell Punks Network, or ESPN for short.
As in short memory.
And when he started reporting, expounding, professing to know 2-3 years back that deep down in his rise-in-the-Big-East-and-set-in-the-ACC heart he just knows Gonzaga is the team to beat out west.
A trip to Phoenix this past winter sure proved that wrong for Few’s ‘Zags.
And poor Andy has been reeling ever since.
Cameron Blue Seth (CBS): God blesss him.
He, like so many other eastern establishment media types, has never ventured into McKale, yet he claims to know what’s best for us.
And he argues to this day that Arizona doesn’t belong.
I haven’t fogotten, and I’m sure many of you haven’t either, but on Selection Sunday as Davis was bad-mouthing the ‘Cats he was also picking Wake Forest to make it beyond Indianapolis and onto Detroit.
How’s that for credibility?
Now back to Frank and montecristo.
That ABC, CBS, NBC, ESPN, FOX and every major sports newspaper and magazine and blog in the country has Arizona Basketball at the tip of its tongue and at the top of its head more than the other 15 sweet ones right now ought to tell all of us something.
I know it speaks volumes to Pitino, Izzo and Dixon.
Not to mention Self and Few.
But I’d be willing to bet it’s saying something loud and clear even to the likes of Cal and Wright, too, especially right about now.
After all, who doesn’t like a Cinderella story?
One where the underdog wins against all odds – for 25 years and 2 games and counting presently – and takes it all.
Someone’s ace coach included.
Yep, THE U: Where a championship and a championship coach await another.
Tucson, the Old Pueblo: Where you can have the money, the glory, the respect.
Where your family can share with you the dignity, the honor, the privacy that you and they, together, expect.
Where you can can play with your grandkids at the local park or in your spacious backyard, work on your golf game, play with your ponies and go fishing – and all at or fairly near the base of the picturesque Santa Catalina Mountains.
Or, I suppose you could always be shoveling your driveway of snow, making your way through the icy, congested, ho-hum streets of Kentucky, Michigan, Pennsylvania or Memphis.
True.
March 25th, 2009 at 8:11 AM
Javier et al..
I think Katz and Davis have already done enough for their reputations that when UA hires someone more qualified than Theus for example, it won’t even register a blip on the radar. They are slowing creeping towards Vitale territory. (Davis is in a full-on sprint towards Vitale territory and Katz is jogging, but on his way there)
Find it humorous to believe that if you list out the top coaches – either established or “up and coming” – who we would all consider great fits at the UA, that they would all say “NO”. SOMEONE will say they are interested and will seriously listen. (Theus is NOT on that list BTW) And this should worry any and all schools because UA is a top-10 program, whether it is #1 or #10, I could care less. Fact is, it is a top-10 school where you can recruit, play in a big-time conference, and can win a Championship.
LJS and others that are from a certain area of course will say and wish that their coaches are set and have no desire to move on to somewhere else, but as mentioned… Everyone has their price – whether it is monetary or a new challenge or a bigger challenge… Why would Pitino leave Kentucky? He was on top of the world!! Why would Spurrier leave Florida? Why would Roy Williams leave Kansas for UNC?
The list goes on and on… In the James Bond vernacular… “Never say Never”. If you are Livengood, you HAVE to ask. You represent the UA and are tasked with hiring the best possible coach to replace a legend. You HAVE to find out if Pitino or Calipari, etc. have an interest in coming here. YOU NEVER KNOW who will say they are tired of the pressure in one place and Arizona looks better and better every day, etc.
Is this arrogance of the UA program to go after these coaches? HELL NO. If Kentucky fires Gillespie, do you think they will not reach out and contact all of the coaches on the UA’s list? Is this arrogance on their part? HELL NO.
Everyone has their price and/or reason…
BTW – If you lived out east right now, there is a rumor that says Pitino will take the St Johns job..